756

[Beefy]

Help me out, here.  I feel like I might be being reactionary about something I admittedly do not understand fully.

I'm not a baseball person.  No big secret there.  I've been to a few Astros games just for the heck of it, and I went to a couple of Yankees games just for the experience (and to heckle Jose Conseco).  Otherwise, the game for me is pretty boring.  Not something I pay attention to on TV, certainly, and not something I keep up with in terms of milestones and such.

That said, I understand the reason why some of the milestones are revered, and why the people who set those milestones are revered.

Now, as I understand it, and I probably have some of this wrong, Bonds was a reasonably abled, lithe baseball player for many years.  Then at around the age of 35 or so, when a lot of players careers would be winding down, he suddenly became a big, bulky player who could hit homers like no one's business.  There has been rampant speculation about steroid use on his part.  Two investigative journalists wrote a book with all kinds on incendiary "facts" about Bonds' roid usage.  He's been officially investigated at least twice.  Yet despite all of this, the opinions on whether he has or hasn't done wrong is still really wishy washy and undecided.

So should this 756 count?  Should it be held in the regard that Hank Aaron's milestone was?  This feels like that McGuire / Sosa broo-ha-ha all over again, where there's plenty of shadiness underlying the sensational aspects and calling into question the legitimacy of all of the uproar.

I guess from the little I know, I feel like this shouldn't matter.  I feel like until someone can conclusively state that Bonds hasn't been roiding all these years that this "accomplishment" should be held suspect. 

How can it be that there is no conclusive answer at this point?  Can't the Baseball people just tell Bonds he has to submit for a series of highly personal biological tests, whether he likes it or not?  Or has this happened already?  If a person has been taking roids for years it would be traceable in their biochemistry, I would think.

Someone who knows better, clear this up for me.  Thanks.

[Bennyhana]

I really don't know much, but I can tell you that they can't test him because he's a member of the union, and the MLB's agreement with that union has very specific rules on drug testing.  It's only recently that the union has allowed any testing at all, and I think that it was the period before they were tested that is in question.

I do have a friend who claims that what Bonds took is not steroids, but is in fact perfectly legal and available at your local GNC.

I'll believe that when a doctor tells me it's true.

[Jessie]

I have no idea, and I don't care much.

I do think that today's sports figures are sad sad role models for the most part.  I had to explain to Timothy the other day that he shouldn't support Vick just because he likes watching him play ball.

[eo000]

How can it be that there is no conclusive answer at this point?  Can't the Baseball people just tell Bonds he has to submit for a series of highly personal biological tests, whether he likes it or not?  Or has this happened already?  If a person has been taking roids for years it would be traceable in their biochemistry, I would think.

From what I understand, the performance enhancer he has been accused of using, Human Growth Hormone, doesn't come up positive on steroid tests, and they don't have anything that tests for it yet.  The one guy that could confirm his use, has kept his trap shut, and is doing time because of it.

On the "should it count, shouldn't it count" question, i feel mixed. Yeah, he hit the home runs, but he might have cheated to do it. Who knows if Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth were taking anything that would have helped them out. It's nice to think that they didn't, but really, no one knows for sure.

Hopefully, Alex Rodriguez stays healthy without using preformance enhancers, and breaks the record a few years down the line so one of the most distinguished records in sports doesn't have this stupid controversy.

[ReBurn]

I think that the reason people are skeptical of Bonds is because of this record. People don't like to see their heroes fall. I think that Bonds is the scapegoat for a much larger problem in professional sports, and it isn't just baseball. Look at the NFL. In real life, how many 350 lb. guys do you know that can get out there and run their asses off for three solid hours without having a heart attack?

Whether league management comes out and says it, this situation with Bonds bulking up and chasing records is exactly what they want. It fills ballparks and brings advertising and endorsement revenue. They're afraid that if they were to seriously investigate and wipe out hormone, steroid and amphetamine usage in professional sports it would go back to that time in the 80's and 90's when people just didn't care about pro sports. When Sosa and McGuire (who had the forearms of Popeye) were chasing the single season homerun record, people were packing stadiums. It was somewhat of a rejuvenation of baseball. Then McGuire admitted to his use of hormones and nobody really cared. The run was over, so it didn't matter any more.

I was listening to the news a week or so ago and they said that some doctor had come forward and admitted to creating a steroid and hormone cocktail for Bonds that couldn't be detected with current screening methods. Nobody gets a return on investment from just a single player, so you know this thing is being used by more people. As far as Bonds himself goes, I think he's an egotistical prick that needs a kick in the nads. But that's a whole other discussion.

[VikingJuice]

First off, FUCK Barry Bonds.  He's a self-righteous, selfish, me first, world class jackass!!  I came to think all of these things since his days playing in Pittsburgh.

I do think the record is tainted and it's not that he's breaking a hallowed record that bothers me but the highly questionable manner in which he's done it.  I think Hank Aaron is a class act and Barry Bonds is just like douche bag Ricky Henderson who proclaimed himself the "best in the world" because he broke the all-time stolen base record some years back.

I think everyone knows Barry is/was juicing for much of his career past the age of 35.  He went from a smallish 190 or so to about 245 in the span of two years.  That doesn't just happen from working hard.  His hat size went up like 9 sizes(measured in eighths and quarters of an inch) in the same span.  While he does have a big head in the metaphorical sense, he doesn't naturally have a large cranium.  Barry breaking the record at least takes the ongoing spotlight off of him for a short bit at least.  I've been listening to 'the chase' stories for several years and have been annoyed every step of the way.  At least that will stop or reduce itself.

And a review of the known facts:

-Barry did admit to using some substances that he "didn't know were steroids"

-People close to Barry know that's shit because he treats his body like a temple as far as nutrition is concerned and reads every label on every product so why wouldn't he scrutinize any sort of "sports aids/supplements" in the same manner?

-Barry's personal 'supplement guru' is now in jail

-Another close associate, who worked intimately with that guru, is also in jail for illegal actions with providing substances to players, including some NFL guys who have been suspended because the NFL is slightly more rigorous in their testing

-Balco is still under investigation despite the jailing of two of it's primary workers

-MLB truly doesn't want REAL drug testing/HGH testing because of the skeletons it would uncover

-MLB still makes a shit load of money off the current situation because while fans care, they don't care enough to demand the game be cleaned up

-The government has been slow to enforce any additional testing

-The MLB player's union is very strong and seems to be doing all it can to protect the secrets of the players under the auspices of "privacy"

-And even though there are dozens of supplements that are "legal" for Joe Q Public at GNC and other similar stores, many of those exact same substances are banned under the rules of MLB and other sports because they provide an unfair advantage in some manner or other

-Even the NFL suspends guys for taking stuff that might just have a trace amount of an illegal NFL substance because they were recovering from muscle injuries or something similar

-Even some asthma meds are illegal under professional sports regulations because of the medicinal steriod components

The bottom line is that there are dozens of legit questions that could be answered if MLB and other groups would push for it but as of now, we're stuck with the cloud of mystery and Barry and his supporters want us to look the other way so they can embrace the moment.

I my mind, the record is tainted.  I can't wait till A-Rod knocks him off this damned pedistal and makes all this cloudy celebration irrelevant.

[dots]

I didn't want Bonds to have the record.  I wanted him to get hit by a pitch and have his hand broken.

I thought about it last night on my way to dinner.  He swung the bat that hit all 756 home runs.  Maybe he did take performance enhancing drugs.  We may never know.  Everyone does a little something to make them better.  As cynical as I am, I really feel like we should just let it go.  Unless he is found guilty, I don't know if it is fair to judge what he may have done.

I don't know...I think it may be the atmosphere of being in the city when it happened and the non-stop coverage on the local news.  It was a great fun moment and everyone was happy.  I went to the bar across the street from the stadium when it happened and so many people were just happy and it was like no wrong could happen in the world for a few hours.

I am still not a Bonds fan.  I still think that he is very selfish and kind of a jackass.  But he really showed his human side and love for the game last night.  It was good.  It was fun. 

[Beefy]

Haha

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=2987734

It's going to go green, so if you can't see it yet just wait.

[VikingJuice]

This clears it up.

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