Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Discussion Thread

[Listener]

Well, I don't know if we have one already, but here's mine.

On the way home from work tonight, I'll be picking up my tickets for the midnight show on Thursday night / Friday morning.  When I eventually wake up on Friday I'll log on and give you my opinion, whether you like it or not... 

This thread WILL contain spoilers, so don't come back and visit it after Thursday at 11:59pm if you don't want to know what happens.

(not like you can't read the book, but still)

I'm honestly not expecting it to be as good as the last few -- the first one is still the best, but the last one had the best cinematography IMO -- but I'm still going to be there with bells on.

Not in costume, though.

[meredith]

I figured I'd see it this weekend... do you think I'd really need to get advance tickets?

[Infobahn]

I have a 3 yo.  We will see it when it is out on DVD.  Can we hold this thread until then? Please?

[Beefy]

I'm going Friday night.  The buzz on this one is very good. 

[Listener]

I figured I'd see it this weekend... do you think I'd really need to get advance tickets?

Probably not, but you may not get the show you want... if you go hoping to get the 1:30 show you might have to wait til 2:00, et al... theaters will be MOBBED.

I have a 3 yo. We will see it when it is out on DVD. Can we hold this thread until then? Please?

Sadly, I doubt it.  It's too big of a movie.  But we promise not to talk about it where you can hear.  Does that help?

I'm going Friday night. The buzz on this one is very good.

Buzz schmuzz...

Actually, this book is probably the weakest of the six that have been released.  It'll be a special-effects extravaganza.  And I think I know how the whole Voldemort thing is going to play out on screen (since I know how it plays out in the book already).

I only wonder how much stuff had to be cut to make it in 2.5 hours.

[nishi]

a friend of mine - and huge fan of the series - just called. he saw a sneak preview and really loved the movie. he said there are several extremely creepy scenes, and some things that are breathtaking. he was shocked at how intact the story remained, once you removed the house elf/SPEW thing.

[Beefy]

Actually, this book is probably the weakest of the six that have been released.

I'd have to disagree there.  While there were enjoyable moments and smaller story arcs, I'd have to say that Half Blood Prince was the weakest in terms of overall narrative.

[eo000]

i bought my tickets monday to see it in imax bigness on friday at 1:30 pm. That was the only imax showing that wasn't sold out for the entire weekend (which is great, because that's the one i was going to take kalya to anyways )

[Listener]

Actually, this book is probably the weakest of the six that have been released.

I'd have to disagree there.  While there were enjoyable moments and smaller story arcs, I'd have to say that Half Blood Prince was the weakest in terms of overall narrative.

I would say HBP is #5 of 6.  It's got too many great moments and too many jaw-droppers (not counting the big ending) to not score higher.  I mean, I liked GOF, but we didn't get to school until 1/3 into the book!  That's like 20 chapters just for two weeks!  And the denouement was ridiculously long, both on GOF and OOTP.

Anyway, my scoring:

Best:  Philosopher's Stone
2:  Order of the Phoenix
3:  Prisoner of Azkaban
4:  Chamber of Secrets
5:  Half Blood Prince
6:  Goblet of Fire

3 and 4 are about equal.

[Listener]

My tickets to tonight's Harry Potter (12:01am) are in my pocket, safe and secure.  Along with coupons to get $1 milk-duds with any concession purchase.  Too bad neither me nor my wife likes milk-duds.

[Beefy]

My friend bought ours for tomorrow night.  We're meeting a pal uptown to see it, and then dinner afterwards if possible.

A night out.  Scary shiat.

[ReBurn]

My friend bought ours for tomorrow night.  We're meeting a pal uptown to see it, and then dinner afterwards if possible.

A night out.  Scary shiat.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Listener]

My verdict:

Not impressed.

A full review will come later.  I have to get ready for work soon and there's an article on Rollertrain (a blog) I want to read first.

[Beefy]

A coworker's wife saw it last night and was not happy with it.  She thought they cut too muc h out and inserted too mcuh humor where the book had none.

Thankfully, I'm not a book purist, so those things are less likely to bother me.

[meredith]

How was the Dumbledore/McGonagall sex scene?

[Beefy]

How was the Dumbledore/McGonagall sex scene?

I was going to Google some fanfic for you, but then I realized that such a thing probably exists and would disturb me, so nevermind.

[meredith]

How was the Dumbledore/McGonagall sex scene?

I was going to Google some fanfic for you, but then I realized that such a thing probably exists and would disturb me, so nevermind.

Yes, Beefy, yes it does exist.  *cue shock incidental*

http://dmoz.org/Adult/Arts/Online_Writing/Fiction/Fan_Fiction/Books/Harry_Potter/  just a link listing, as an example.

I think there was one called "Forbidden Section" "Restricted Section" linked from TF a while back.

[meredith]

Okay, so there's this one:

A Day in the Life of a Ferret by Jackie (NC-17 - Dean/Seamus, Dumbledore/McGonagall, Harry/Draco) Following a night of uninmaginable decadence, Draco finds himself facing the wrath of Pansy. What better punishment for the Slytherin sex god than to turn him into a ferret? Plenty of whipping, wrestling, wand engorging and sexual tension in store.

But I think this one scared me more:

A Glint In His Eye by Sijian (NC-17 - Hagrid/Dumbledore) Dare you to delve into the twisted realm of Hagrid and his pink umbrella? After Harry's untimely death, a traumatized Hagrid decides to take revenge on Dumbledore.

Unfortunately, GIS for "brain bleach" does not deliver.

[Bennyhana]

Okay, so there's this one:

A Day in the Life of a Ferret by Jackie (NC-17 - Dean/Seamus, Dumbledore/McGonagall, Harry/Draco) Following a night of uninmaginable decadence, Draco finds himself facing the wrath of Pansy. What better punishment for the Slytherin sex god than to turn him into a ferret? Plenty of whipping, wrestling, wand engorging and sexual tension in store.

But I think this one scared me more:

A Glint In His Eye by Sijian (NC-17 - Hagrid/Dumbledore) Dare you to delve into the twisted realm of Hagrid and his pink umbrella? After Harry's untimely death, a traumatized Hagrid decides to take revenge on Dumbledore.

Unfortunately, GIS for "brain bleach" does not deliver.

you know what they say: Be careful what you google for, you just may get it.

[Alice]

I think I may be the only person in the US that will never see this movie.

[cnamon]

I think I may be the only person in the US that will never see this movie.

Nope.  I am not going to see it either.  I have never seen a HP movie or read the book.

[Listener]

WARNING:  the next post I post will contain spoilers.

[Listener]

Satisfied & Unsatisfied:

    * Satisfied

          o The murder of Frank Bryce.

          o The removal of the Dursleys. (Although their scenes would have been amusing, and although they were key in my "ideal" opening of the film, I understand why they were cut.)

          o The abridging of the days at the Burrow.

          o The Portkey sequence and the entrance into the "tent city" of wizards at the World Cup.

          o The introduction of the Ireland and Bulgaria Quidditch teams.

          o The arrival of the Beaubaxtons students and the Durmstrang students — the chariot, the ship, and the introduction. (The "gratuitous ass shot" was a little cheesy, as were the tumblers, but otherwise it was good.)

          o The abridging of the champion selection process.

          o The complete removal of SPEW. (Thank goodness. That was without a doubt the weakest part of Book 4.)

          o The complete removal of the house-elves. (The abridging was done nicely.)

          o Harry vs the Dragon in the First Task. (Suitable drama and action.)

          o The tension between Harry and Ron. (Far better than in the book.)

          o The Patil twins. (The actresses aren't really twins, but they pull off the roles quite well.)

          o The arrival of Hermione in her dress. (Although it does show just how damn angular Emma Watson has become.)

          o The dance sequence at the Yule Ball.

          o The bathroom scene. (Very well-played by both Daniel Radcliffe and Shirley Henderson. Henderson, who plays Moaning Myrtle, by the way, is 40 years old. In my theater, the shirtless — and ostensibly pantsless — Radcliffe got some "woo!" action, and from a purely objective standpoint, I suppose I understand why, although he's kind of ropy; all arms, no chest.)

          o From Gillyweed to Merpeople. (Nice substitution of Neville for Dobby, and the underwater scenes were well-done.

          o The furthering of Neville's character. (Everyone loves Neville, and we were all glad to see that he finally had himself a good time. The "I just got in" line, though, was a little cheesy; after all, Ginny, his date, is only 13!)

          o The death of Cedric. (Even though I knew it was coming, it still hit me hard.)

          o The introduction of Voldemort.

    * Unsatisfied

          o The Quidditch World Cup and the After-Party. I was extremely unsatisfied with this sequence. Quidditch is by far one of the favorite parts of any Harry Potter book and movie, and the short shrift that it received — none at all, as a matter of fact — was, to use the vernacular, bollocks. There was a direct cut from the amazing wall-of-Krum to the after-party in the Weasleys' tent. We had no idea that Ireland won — not even a word of it. Also, there was no start to the set-up that leads eventually to Harry giving Fred and George his Triwizard winnings, mostly because the superfluous character of Ludo Bagman was removed from the film.

          o Michael Gambon's interpretation of Dumbledore. Richard Harris played Dumbledore as kindly, but able to inspire fear as needed. In the third film, Gambon came across as darker and mysterious, but in this movie, he seems nothing more than old, tired, and cranky. He very nearly throttles Harry, and although that's supposed to come across as his concern for the events that have transpired, Gambon doesn't pull it off.

          o Rita Skeeter. In the book, she plays a role, but with the removal of the nuances of Hagrid and Maxime's romance, that entire role is pointless. However, I suppose we need her in the movie for her small yet vital role in Book Five. Miranda Richardson did a fine job, but it was a role that could have been completely removed and otherwise explained in Film Five.

          o Summoning Charms. That's the charm Harry uses to call his broom. But we have no idea what he's doing when he does it in the First Task. He just casts a spell and then hides for thirty seconds. There has to be a scene somewhere on the cutting-room floor of him learning the charm or Hermione suggesting it to him. Unfortunately, that would have created too great a sense of deus ex machina, and I guess that's why it was cut. Still, of all the things in the First Task, that was the weakest.

          o Hermione is such a GIRL! The screenwriter should be scolded for turning Hermione from a strong character into nothing more than a worrier through half the film. Emma Watson must have been rolling her eyes between some of the takes. She has to do such silly stuff.

          o Cho Chang. No, I have no problems with the way Katie Leung played the character. But there was a little too much subtext added, especially given the events of Book Six.

          o The Dance Lesson. Oh, boy. What a waste.

          o The Yule Ball. Although it was important to the story, there was a lot of fluff in the Yule Ball sequence. It was obviously intended to build off the hand-holding moment in Film Three (the Hippogriff scene), and the lead-in was good, but Hermione seriously overreacted to Ron's comments. Yeah, he was a dick, but she is too strong a character to completely break down the way she did — the scene on the steps, et al. Plus, if she's going to be that upset, she should've been mad at Ron far longer.

          o The Points. The Tasks have points, and they determine who gets to enter the maze first at the end, but that's completely eliminated. We're supposed to take on faith that Harry and Cedric have tied for first, and that Krum is third and Fleur is fourth. I buy Fleur as fourth because she had to forefeit the Second Task, but the rest of it makes no sense without points.

          o Sirius. It's very important that Harry contact Sirius a lot in Book Four because it sets up the feelings he has in Book Five and Book Six. But by marginalizing Sirius to a face in a fire, that attachment will seem even weaker in Film Five. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they find a way to get around it completely.

          o Barty Crouch Jr. Obviously, time constraints removed a lot of what led up to Junior's plot, but there were too many obscure clues scattered throughout the movie — the scene with Snape in the cupboard, the death of Barty Crouch Sr, and then, at the end, the explanation as to why Junior did it. That was all far too glossed-over, and given that that particular conflict comes after the battle with Voldemort, I know it had to be done quicker, since the main climax was over. But it didn't resonate like it did in the book. That's not saying much, though; in the book, it didn't resonate either. It felt tacked-on.

          o The Fourth Task. The maze was completely different, and far scarier, but almost too obscure. It didn't seem to test the characters' magic skills as much as I suppsed it would. We were robbed of a good "Expecto Patronum!" as well. The bewitching of Krum — how did Harry know? When did he learn how to tell Krum was under the Imperious Curse? He just "knows"? Sorry, but I have to call shenanigans. The maze itself was a generic horror-film threat.

          o The battle with Voldemort. Too short. We never really feel the menace, and we never really see that Voldemort truly is the most evilest wizard of our time. Harry basically confronts him, they do Priori Incantatem, and it's over. I think we could've done with about two more minutes of fighting; in the book, the fight isn't long, but it's not that short. If Voldemort is going to be that evil and that powerful, he needs to do a lot more than give Wormtail a new hand and rip off a few masks before we believe it.

          o The Denouement. Gambon's weak grasp of the Dumbledore character again shines through, but a lot of the problems here came from the editing and abridging of the script. We don't get the feeling that Dumbledore really cares for Harry as much as he does; we feel more like he cares for Harry as he would care for any student. Gambon better learn more for the next film, and Steve Kloves better abridge less.

          o The Three Musketeers. That ending scene was really, really weak.

And a little miscellany:

    * Does anyone else think that Brendan Gleeson (Moody) looks a lot like Jack Black?

    * My theory holds: any film that the AJC's Eleanor Ringel Gillespie gives a favorable review, I will be less-than-pleased with. Any movie she hates, I'll probably enjoy.

Now, the overview:

    * Music. In Star Trek, the even-numbered films are better. In Harry Potter, the odd-numbered films have had better music. John Williams was absent from this film for whatever reason, and the musician they chose doesn't have his skill. He's passable, but that's about it. The music supports; it's not a character of its own, as it is when Williams orchestrated the first and third films. I would've liked to hear Graeme Revell or Cliff Eidelmann; with a film of this magnitude, you'd think they could've gotten a better, more well-known composer. At least they kept "Hedwig's Theme" (the musical sting we know and love from all three previous films).

    * Lighting. This film was lit in a very bleak fashion. There are splashes of color, but again, everything seems gloomy, or at the very least muted. The first two films were bright and colorful, and even though the themes of Book Three, Four, Five, and Six were quite dark, I think the lighting could've at least been a little less dim. The characters often looked washed out, and the strong dark colors (save Fleur's blue outfits) didn't draw the eye as they should have.

    * Costume Design. Except for the champions' outfits, I was very pleased with the costumes in this film. We really got a "school" feel in this one, far more than Film Three. The champions' outfits, though, seemed far too modernized — Fleur wore a track suit! If you ignore the champions' Task outfits, the costume design was quite nicely-done. I particularly liked the traditional Indian garb of the Patil twins — good attention to detail there.

    * Magic. This film was the lightest on magic of all of them. Harry didn't have to learn any new spells to help him do stuff; he just seemed to know them. The little whistle-sounds of magic in the last one were absent here; they would've helped us at the very least in the First Task, to know that Harry had successfully cast accio. This one was less about magic and more about action.

    * Action Sequences and CG. No complaints here. Except for a little too much running in the maze, the action sequences were pretty believeable. I didn't notice any CG artifacts, either.

    * Main Characters.

          o Harry: he whined a bit much when he was facing Voldemort and was caught by the scythe handle. He seemed a little too cavalier as well (the "open the egg" scene), and his character went through a lot of mood shifts far too quickly. At least Radcliffe managed to retain the good-natured smiles he's perfected through the years, especially at appropriately-humorous moments. And when he returned from the graveyard with Cedric... that was well-played.

          o Hermione: as previously noted, the script and direction severely weakened the Hermione character. The spider's death scene, the crying on the stairs, the hugs, the doting on Harry... I didn't buy it.

          o Ron: finally, he's not just the hero's buddy. Finally, his character starts to build, at least a little. Finally, he's not just a tall dude who makes faces!

          o Moody: very nicely done.

          o Dumbledore: as previously noted, Michael Gambon doesn't have this character down yet, and I fear he may never.

          o Snape: Snape, for all his faults, is not an asshole, and he would never have done what he did in the study hall scene. I would not be surprised if Alan Rickman makes Film Five his last one. Would you want to be known as the man who killed Dumbledore?

          o The rest of the teachers: woefully underused.

          o Moaning Myrtle: an excellent cameo by Shirley Henderson, as I'd said. She has this character down pat.

          o The Weasleys: I was very pleased with the portrayals of Arthur (the father), the twins (irreverent yet good-hearted), and Ginny (who's coming into her own).

          o The other kids: Everyone else at Hogwarts — even Malfoy — was relegated to a background role. I am glad they got all the kids to come back, though.

          o Cedric: Robert Pattinson nailed the character. Even though he didn't have a huge part, he really made us care about Cedric, which brought it home even more when he was killed. It's too bad the character had to die; he'd've been a good character in future films.

          o Krum and Fleur: Ably played. There wasn't enough done to capitalize on Krum's celebrity status, though.

    * Direction: Mike Newell did an able job directing this film, although it wasn't inspired direction, as Film Two and Film Three were — Two because of the camera movements, Three because of Cuaron's vision. I don't know if Newell really was able to capture enough, though, because of the severe abridging of the book to fit in a 2.5-hour movie.

    * Editing: The editor did the best possible job, but there was too much that had to be cut to shorten the film.

    * Screenplay: I think you know by now how I feel about this. But let me add one other thing — if you didn't read the book, you'll have no idea what's going on. Too much was cut for the film to really make any sort of sense.

I fear for the Fifth Film. If it's not four hours long with an intermission in the middle, there is no way all the nuances of that book will fit into the film.

Overall, I give this film $5 out of $10. Enjoyable, but extremely disappointing to fans of the books and extremely hard to follow for those who only watch the movies. I don't know why the reviewers are saying this is the best of them; in every way that matters to a true fan, it's probably the worst.

As I've said in the past in other forums, I believe Book Four was the weakest of all the books, and this film shows it. Book Four was action; Film Four is action. There isn't much character development there at all.

In order, I rank the books thusly:

   1. Prisoner of Azkaban
   2. Chamber of Secrets and Order of the Phoenix
   3. Philosopher's Stone
   4. Half-Blood Prince
   5. Goblet of Fire

And the films:

   1. Sorcerer's Stone
   2. Prisoner of Azkaban
   3. Chamber of Secrets
   4. Goblet of Fire

I recommend you see the movie, but don't go into it with high expectations. You'll be disappointed. And that's the thing I'm most sorry about.

(Yes, this is exactly what I posted on my blog.)

EDITED:  by Gamp to be spoilerificized!

[Alice]

WARNING:  the next post I post will contain spoilers.

FYI - it's best if you put spoilers in very small type - otherwise someone won't be able to read past your spoilers without probably seeing something.

[Gamplayerx]

WARNING:  the next post I post will contain spoilers.

FYI - it's best if you put spoilers in very small type - otherwise someone won't be able to read past your spoilers without probably seeing something.

Very good point.  Hey, dc!!  Weren't you looking into a spoiler function/button?