I <3 Joe Paterno so much.

[dazie]

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=dw-paterno052207&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Me    Joepa

[DownSouth]

Big deal.  Was anyone suspended?  No.

[manosax]

The thing that makes Joe Paterno a great coach isn't the fact that he is willing to wait and see which student was involved with the incident and then punish. Rather, he views the team as a whole and I applaud him for it.  The punishment that the legal system will deal out is irrelevent to the dammage that the team will take over this.  The players at Penn St. can do one of two things.  They can do what every other sports baby would do while waiting for the NFL draft and whine and moan, or they can suck it up and use this as some real team building and solidify as one unit.  The reason that Joe is punishing is not so much that there was a lack of judgement, but that there wasn't enough integrity and leadership and moral fortitude to know that this was wrong.  If they whine, let them  and be a pampered football star somewhere else.  I think I might just follow Penn St. this year.

[ursus]

The dude is soooo old school it was new school when he started.

Why suspend? Make them work for it, suspending tells them that they get a vacation when they "make poor choices".

I'm digging this.

[dazie]

Exactly- these guys are paid to play football.  99% of that team is there on scholarships.  If they don't play for a game, they still get to keep the scholarship money, but they get to not have the tar beaten out of them for a Saturday. 

I knew a bunch of football players when I was going to school there- not all of them made it to the pros, but all the ones I knew graduated, and some went on to coach college teams as well.  It's more important for Joepa to make sure he has good PEOPLE than good players.  The lessons that teach the kids how to play football are always much easier than the lessons that teach the kids how to be decent people.

[Alice]

They started paying college football players now? 

[ursus]

They started paying college football players now? 

Scholarship much?

They sure as hell don't give them that bread for the work they do in pharm-chem or particle physics.

[Alice]

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood.  I thought they were actually *paying* them.  Which would be a pretty bad move to allow that to start happening.

[eo000]

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood.  I thought they were actually *paying* them.  Which would be a pretty bad move to allow that to start happening.

are you being serious?

[Alice]

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood.  I thought they were actually *paying* them.  Which would be a pretty bad move to allow that to start happening.

are you being serious?

About misunderstanding or it being a mistake?

Well, I was being serious about both... so I suppose it doesn't make a difference.

[eo000]

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood.  I thought they were actually *paying* them.  Which would be a pretty bad move to allow that to start happening.

are you being serious?

About misunderstanding or it being a mistake?

Well, I was being serious about both... so I suppose it doesn't make a difference.

about them not deserving to get paid.

[Alice]

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood.  I thought they were actually *paying* them.  Which would be a pretty bad move to allow that to start happening.

are you being serious?

About misunderstanding or it being a mistake?

Well, I was being serious about both... so I suppose it doesn't make a difference.

about them not deserving to get paid.

Oh no, I think they deserve scholarships and all that.  But I don't think college athletes should get a salary by any means.

[Jessie]

I don't know about Joe Paterno, but this guy is pretty hot.

[ReBurn]

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood.  I thought they were actually *paying* them.  Which would be a pretty bad move to allow that to start happening.

are you being serious?

About misunderstanding or it being a mistake?

Well, I was being serious about both... so I suppose it doesn't make a difference.

about them not deserving to get paid.

Oh no, I think they deserve scholarships and all that.  But I don't think college athletes should get a salary by any means.

What if one of those means is work?

[Alice]

I don't know about Joe Paterno, but ice is cold.

[Alice]

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood.  I thought they were actually *paying* them.  Which would be a pretty bad move to allow that to start happening.

are you being serious?

About misunderstanding or it being a mistake?

Well, I was being serious about both... so I suppose it doesn't make a difference.

about them not deserving to get paid.

Oh no, I think they deserve scholarships and all that.  But I don't think college athletes should get a salary by any means.

What if one of those means is work?

Nope... they should have to work 2 full time jobs and totally work for free at those too.

[ReBurn]

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood.  I thought they were actually *paying* them.  Which would be a pretty bad move to allow that to start happening.

are you being serious?

About misunderstanding or it being a mistake?

Well, I was being serious about both... so I suppose it doesn't make a difference.

about them not deserving to get paid.

Oh no, I think they deserve scholarships and all that.  But I don't think college athletes should get a salary by any means.

What if one of those means is work?

Nope... they should have to work 2 full time jobs and totally work for free at those too.

I agree. That will teach them to value the free college education.

[eo000]

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood.  I thought they were actually *paying* them.  Which would be a pretty bad move to allow that to start happening.

are you being serious?

About misunderstanding or it being a mistake?

Well, I was being serious about both... so I suppose it doesn't make a difference.

about them not deserving to get paid.

Oh no, I think they deserve scholarships and all that.  But I don't think college athletes should get a salary by any means.

even with the amount of revenue they create for the universities?

paying them legally would cut down on some of the recruiting violations. not all, or even most, but some.

[Alice]

Recruting violations?

Meh, I retract my statement.  I don't know enough about college sports to really say.  But from the little I know, it would seem odd to give them a salary for it.

[eo000]

Recruting violations?

Meh, I retract my statement.  I don't know enough about college sports to really say.  But from the little I know, it would seem odd to give them a salary for it.

but why would it be odd? they earn so much money for the university, why not pay them for it.

[ReBurn]

Recruting violations?

Meh, I retract my statement.  I don't know enough about college sports to really say.  But from the little I know, it would seem odd to give them a salary for it.

No takebacks!

[Alice]

Recruting violations?

Meh, I retract my statement.  I don't know enough about college sports to really say.  But from the little I know, it would seem odd to give them a salary for it.

but why would it be odd? they earn so much money for the university, why not pay them for it.

Because then you'd have to start paying everyone for all the clubs they're in at school.

[eo000]

Recruting violations?

Meh, I retract my statement.  I don't know enough about college sports to really say.  But from the little I know, it would seem odd to give them a salary for it.

but why would it be odd? they earn so much money for the university, why not pay them for it.

Because then you'd have to start paying everyone for all the clubs they're in at school.

if it's earning the school tons of money, why not?  i'm not saying that all profits should go back the the student athletes, but they aren't even allowed to get part time jobs. academic scholarship students can work, but because someone might give these student athletes jobs, and not make them show up, just so they can be "part" of the program is shitty.

[Alice]

They aren't allowed to get jobs?  That seems a little absurd.

[eo000]

They aren't allowed to get jobs?  That seems a little absurd.

absurd, but true.

[Alice]

I wish I would have known that.  I would have sent half my paycheck to Cedric Benson to help him out in school.

[eo000]

I wish I would have known that.  I would have sent half my paycheck to Cedric Benson to help him out in school.

don't feel too bad. they do get $500 a month for living expenses.

[Alice]

I wish I would have known that.  I would have sent half my paycheck to Cedric Benson to help him out in school.

don't feel too bad. they do get $500 a month for living expenses.

Okay, I won't.  But it would have been a good excuse to get a piece from him.

[eo000]

I wish I would have known that.  I would have sent half my paycheck to Cedric Benson to help him out in school.

don't feel too bad. they do get $500 a month for living expenses.

Okay, I won't.  But it would have been a good excuse to get a piece from him.

they can't carry guns on campus.

[Alice]

I wish I would have known that.  I would have sent half my paycheck to Cedric Benson to help him out in school.

don't feel too bad. they do get $500 a month for living expenses.

Okay, I won't.  But it would have been a good excuse to get a piece from him.

they can't carry guns on campus.

Didn't he go to Texas? I thought they were all about the guns in TX.

[Bennyhana]

It's unfortunate, because I love to watch professional Football, but I completely abhor everything in the athletes' lives that lead up to it.

Come to think about it, I kinda abhor the athletes themselves sometimes.  I think that professional athletes should each get paid $100,000/year (and ticket and concession prices should come down appropriately, so the owners aren't exploiting the players) and STFU about it.  That way your favorite players would have a chance of staying on your favorite team, you could actually afford to take your family to the game, and there wouldn't be this ridiculous bullshit in college, where athletes are treated like royalty because they might get paid 8 figures one day.

[eo000]

It's unfortunate, because I love to watch professional Football, but I completely abhor everything in the athletes' lives that lead up to it.

Come to think about it, I kinda abhor the athletes themselves sometimes.  I think that professional athletes should each get paid $100,000/year (and ticket and concession prices should come down appropriately, so the owners aren't exploiting the players) and STFU about it.  That way your favorite players would have a chance of staying on your favorite team, you could actually afford to take your family to the game, and there wouldn't be this ridiculous bullshit in college, where athletes are treated like royalty because they might get paid 8 figures one day.

yeah, but what about the backup o-lineman that won't even get a sniff of pro money? why shouldn't he be able to earn while in college?

and you don't think that if you're better at your job than someone else, that you shouldn't get paid more than that person? or that you shouldn't be able to look elsewhere for a better paying job? sounds communist.

[Bennyhana]

It's unfortunate, because I love to watch professional Football, but I completely abhor everything in the athletes' lives that lead up to it.

Come to think about it, I kinda abhor the athletes themselves sometimes.  I think that professional athletes should each get paid $100,000/year (and ticket and concession prices should come down appropriately, so the owners aren't exploiting the players) and STFU about it.  That way your favorite players would have a chance of staying on your favorite team, you could actually afford to take your family to the game, and there wouldn't be this ridiculous bullshit in college, where athletes are treated like royalty because they might get paid 8 figures one day.

yeah, but what about the backup o-lineman that won't even get a sniff of pro money? why shouldn't he be able to earn while in college?

and you don't think that if you're better at your job than someone else, that you shouldn't get paid more than that person? or that you shouldn't be able to look elsewhere for a better paying job? sounds communist.

There are plenty of actors in college who will never see money for acting, either, and no one pays them.  They do it because either they're vain assholes, or they can't stop themselves from doing it.  Trust me, somewhere there is a backup o-lineman that will never play pro that would do it even without a scholarship.

Yes, it does sound communist.  And I hate having communist ideas.  Too bad the system is so broken and out of hand that I don't really think there's another option to save the whole damn thing from going into the toilet.

[eo000]

It's unfortunate, because I love to watch professional Football, but I completely abhor everything in the athletes' lives that lead up to it.

Come to think about it, I kinda abhor the athletes themselves sometimes.  I think that professional athletes should each get paid $100,000/year (and ticket and concession prices should come down appropriately, so the owners aren't exploiting the players) and STFU about it.  That way your favorite players would have a chance of staying on your favorite team, you could actually afford to take your family to the game, and there wouldn't be this ridiculous bullshit in college, where athletes are treated like royalty because they might get paid 8 figures one day.

yeah, but what about the backup o-lineman that won't even get a sniff of pro money? why shouldn't he be able to earn while in college?

and you don't think that if you're better at your job than someone else, that you shouldn't get paid more than that person? or that you shouldn't be able to look elsewhere for a better paying job? sounds communist.

There are plenty of actors in college who will never see money for acting, either, and no one pays them.  They do it because either they're vain assholes, or they can't stop themselves from doing it.  Trust me, somewhere there is a backup o-lineman that will never play pro that would do it even without a scholarship.

Yes, it does sound communist.  And I hate having communist ideas.  Too bad the system is so broken and out of hand that I don't really think there's another option to save the whole damn thing from going into the toilet.

those actors are allowed to get jobs in college. athletes aren't.

[ReBurn]

Not true. There's running drugs and protection rackets.

[Bennyhana]

It's unfortunate, because I love to watch professional Football, but I completely abhor everything in the athletes' lives that lead up to it.

Come to think about it, I kinda abhor the athletes themselves sometimes.  I think that professional athletes should each get paid $100,000/year (and ticket and concession prices should come down appropriately, so the owners aren't exploiting the players) and STFU about it.  That way your favorite players would have a chance of staying on your favorite team, you could actually afford to take your family to the game, and there wouldn't be this ridiculous bullshit in college, where athletes are treated like royalty because they might get paid 8 figures one day.

yeah, but what about the backup o-lineman that won't even get a sniff of pro money? why shouldn't he be able to earn while in college?

and you don't think that if you're better at your job than someone else, that you shouldn't get paid more than that person? or that you shouldn't be able to look elsewhere for a better paying job? sounds communist.

There are plenty of actors in college who will never see money for acting, either, and no one pays them.  They do it because either they're vain assholes, or they can't stop themselves from doing it.  Trust me, somewhere there is a backup o-lineman that will never play pro that would do it even without a scholarship.

Yes, it does sound communist.  And I hate having communist ideas.  Too bad the system is so broken and out of hand that I don't really think there's another option to save the whole damn thing from going into the toilet.

those actors are allowed to get jobs in college. athletes aren't.

Guess what?  I don't give a fuck.  Those athletes get to play in brand new multimillion dollar facilities, and they have had everyone's head up their ass since they were in High School.  So fuck them.  Fuck them up their coddled asses.

[Bennyhana]

The reason why those athletes aren't allowed to get jobs is because there are too many people willing to help them break the rules.  If you can't handle the responsibility, you don't get the freedom.

[Bennyhana]

I don't think it needs to be said at this point, but Paterno is A-okay in my book.  Next time someone fucks up, they should be cleaning the urinals.

Being good at a sport does not give you the right to carry yourself like a jackass.

[eo000]

It's unfortunate, because I love to watch professional Football, but I completely abhor everything in the athletes' lives that lead up to it.

Come to think about it, I kinda abhor the athletes themselves sometimes.  I think that professional athletes should each get paid $100,000/year (and ticket and concession prices should come down appropriately, so the owners aren't exploiting the players) and STFU about it.  That way your favorite players would have a chance of staying on your favorite team, you could actually afford to take your family to the game, and there wouldn't be this ridiculous bullshit in college, where athletes are treated like royalty because they might get paid 8 figures one day.

yeah, but what about the backup o-lineman that won't even get a sniff of pro money? why shouldn't he be able to earn while in college?

and you don't think that if you're better at your job than someone else, that you shouldn't get paid more than that person? or that you shouldn't be able to look elsewhere for a better paying job? sounds communist.

There are plenty of actors in college who will never see money for acting, either, and no one pays them.  They do it because either they're vain assholes, or they can't stop themselves from doing it.  Trust me, somewhere there is a backup o-lineman that will never play pro that would do it even without a scholarship.

Yes, it does sound communist.  And I hate having communist ideas.  Too bad the system is so broken and out of hand that I don't really think there's another option to save the whole damn thing from going into the toilet.

those actors are allowed to get jobs in college. athletes aren't.

Guess what?  I don't give a fuck.  Those athletes get to play in brand new multimillion dollar facilities, and they have had everyone's head up their ass since they were in High School.  So fuck them.  Fuck them up their coddled asses.

so because the schools built mulitmillion dollar facilities, the athletes worked hard to hone their abilities, and others have idolized them along the way, they shouldn't be able to get a part time job.


there was a whole lot more i had in here, but why bother. you've stated you don't care.

[Beefy]

It's not just a football phenomenon, it's a societal thing.  Look at Britney Spears.  I have no doubt she has put in the time, sweat, and effort to get to where she's gotten.  But just as we like to build up our bombastic, self-important douchebags, we also like to tear them down.  And to some degree, they'll have earned that resentment from the public.

Nothing's gonna change.

I'd have more respect for such people if they kept some aspect of their life grounded in normal human reality, like a part time job or such.  Go volunteer in a hospice or something.

[Bennyhana]

It's not just a football phenomenon, it's a societal thing.  Look at Britney Spears.  I have no doubt she has put in the time, sweat, and effort to get to where she's gotten.  But just as we like to build up our bombastic, self-important douchebags, we also like to tear them down.  And to some degree, they'll have earned that resentment from the public.

Nothing's gonna change.

I'd have more respect for such people if they kept some aspect of their life grounded in normal human reality, like a part time job or such.  Go volunteer in a hospice or something.

So here's the question:  Was it like this 200 years ago?  And if not (as I suspect), why not?

[Jessie]

What about Roman Gladiators?  How were they treated in society?

[Jessie]

Never mind.

The Romans' attitude towards the gladiators was ambiguous: on the one hand to be a Gladiator was the ultimate social disgrace and in fact they were legally designated as infamia (loss of certain public rights);[10] but on the other hand, some successful gladiators rose to celebrity status and even those of senatorial and equites families seemed to join up as gladiators (the Larinum decree under Tiberius banned those of such status from becoming gladiators, which implies that this must have been happening[11]). Being a Lanista was a very lucrative business, but it also was viewed as among the lowest professions on the social scale and well below prostitution, although paradoxically if the Lanista had other sources of income he carried no stigma at all. Likewise if the Gladiator took no fee for fighting then the legal stigma of infamia did not apply and the Gladiator legally lost no social status although remaining publicly disgraced.

[Beefy]

It's not just a football phenomenon, it's a societal thing.  Look at Britney Spears.  I have no doubt she has put in the time, sweat, and effort to get to where she's gotten.  But just as we like to build up our bombastic, self-important douchebags, we also like to tear them down.  And to some degree, they'll have earned that resentment from the public.

Nothing's gonna change.

I'd have more respect for such people if they kept some aspect of their life grounded in normal human reality, like a part time job or such.  Go volunteer in a hospice or something.

So here's the question:  Was it like this 200 years ago?  And if not (as I suspect), why not?

I'll take a stab at this.  Just one dude's thoughts and such.

I think perhaps it wasn't like this 200 years ago, and that was because as a culture we weren't as reflexive and self-aware.  Sure, there was still corruption and douchebags and such, but it came in different flavors.  And that behavior by and large certainly wasn't lauded and encouraged by the majority of the population.  It was something to keep to whispers when discussing.

Now we've grown and learned a lot about ourselves.  We've been around long enough to be able to look back and study how our culture has changed.  As we have become more self-aware, we've also become more callous.  We simply don't care as much about the gray middle areas of life.  We love the stories of those rising, and those being torn down, because they're the most sensational.  Additionally, as technology marches on and on, finding new ways for us to connect, it's also driving us apart in ways, and so where we were once taught that certain behaviors weren't acceptable around others, we now don't have to adhere to that since we're not actually in the same room.  And then so these folks who have grown to be without these inhibitions are now raising children without these inhibitions.  And the mass populace eats it up because it keeps them from being bored and it makes them feel better about themselves to say, "Well, if I had access to all that power, money, and idolatry, I certainly would have handled it more respectably."

[manosax]

I don't think it needs to be said at this point, but Paterno is A-okay in my book.  Next time someone fucks up, they should be cleaning the urinals.

Being good at a sport does not give you the right to carry yourself like a jackass.

AMEN Brother!

[ReBurn]

What about Roman Gladiators?  How were they treated in society?

Quite often they were treated to lions.

[DownSouth]

Jealous much?

[VikingJuice]

I like what Joe-Pa Stands for.  The man's been working at as head coach since many of our parents were toddlers.  He works hard, he seems to play by the rules, and he manages to do well in his profession while still coming across as an average/humble guy in interviews.

I do think college athletes should either be paid a small sum to defer costs of attending college or be allowed to work at school sanctioned, monitored, jobs where illegal monies can't be funnelled in readily.  Most people don't realize that NOT all scholarships pay for everything for an athlete.  NOT all athletes are pampered douchebags.  NOT all athletes attempt to circumvent rules and regulations.  MOST in fact do not go on to careers in the pros.  MANY, perhaps even MOST, do seek an actual education with their scholarship endeavors.

[manosax]

There are those that are a part of a high profile team like Penn St Football where most of the members of the team are on full rides.  Well, most of the starters at the very least.  I have told some of my HS students that a soprts scholarship can get them a free or nearly free education.  I'm sure that there are some programs where they pay for their tuition, housing and all of their meals.  That would make sense from a control aspect.  Heck, I would want my players eating what the team nutritionist told them to to optimize their health and performance. 

[VikingJuice]

There are those that are a part of a high profile team like Penn St Football where most of the members of the team are on full rides.  Well, most of the starters at the very least.  I have told some of my HS students that a soprts scholarship can get them a free or nearly free education.  I'm sure that there are some programs where they pay for their tuition, housing and all of their meals.  That would make sense from a control aspect.  Heck, I would want my players eating what the team nutritionist told them to to optimize their health and performance. 

I agree.  Unfortunately, most college athletes eat in the general eating area where you have a meal card and full access to every variety of fried unhealthy crap.  If I were a university giving out scholarships to athletes, I'd want them supervised by a nutritionist too.

[manosax]

There are those that are a part of a high profile team like Penn St Football where most of the members of the team are on full rides.  Well, most of the starters at the very least.  I have told some of my HS students that a soprts scholarship can get them a free or nearly free education.  I'm sure that there are some programs where they pay for their tuition, housing and all of their meals.  That would make sense from a control aspect.  Heck, I would want my players eating what the team nutritionist told them to to optimize their health and performance. 

I agree.  Unfortunately, most college athletes eat in the general eating area where you have a meal card and full access to every variety of fried unhealthy crap.  If I were a university giving out scholarships to athletes, I'd want them supervised by a nutritionist too.

There are a great deal that actually do.  Nebraska has an intese program for all of their atheletes.  They partner up with the Nutrition students and really get the most from their diet.  I had a kid that just got a scholarship to UT and he is in contact with their food gurus..

[dazie]

Trust me- these guys eat well and live well.  Trust me.   

[manosax]

Trust me- these guys eat well and live well.  Trust me.   

eating well and eating correctly are two differnt things... I saw a thing on the Nebraska Sports Nutrition program, they had to really retrain how many of these footballers ate.  they even took them to a grocery store and taught them how to shop for ballenced nutrition.  I was way impressed.

[VikingJuice]

Yeah, eating right as an athlete is a very big deal at that level.  I remember at UH how the football team and other athletes ate in the same cafeteria as the student body-meaning they had access to hamburgers, fried chicken, loads of gravy and whatever unhealthy stuff there was from day to day.  I saw one football player eathing nothing but hamburgers.  Even for a person who needs 5000 or so calories a day, those aren't nutritious calories.

[ursus]

It's not just a football phenomenon, it's a societal thing.  Look at Britney Spears.  I have no doubt she has put in the time, sweat, and effort to get to where she's gotten.

As someone who has studied performance practice I'm going to use the idea of the pop star rather than the specific pop icon mentioned here. If she had really spent that time , sweat and effort to get there she would not have sucked the way she did. Zorched out of her mind or not, she would have been better if she had put in the reps. I've seen the zonked do amazing things, based on muscle memory (dance?) and she didn't display that.

Having said that, I suspect that some of these folks would be attention seeking turtle necks even if they had gravitated toward chess, found art or anthropology.

I don't know why the NFL has such a strangle hold over our college campuses. Why should students bear the brunt of dealing with football's minor leagues? The flip side is that with all the dough these programs bring in, they should adequately compensate  at least some of these guys, they sure as hell aren't at school on academic scholarships.

Who wants pie?