Vegan cooking class

[cnamon]

It was not good.

If it taste like chicken, damnit just eat chicken.

[ignom]

Did you make tofurkey?

[Beefy]

Or use some Tuno?

[cnamon]

There were tofu meatballs and chili.

It tasted like smelly ass dressed in ketchup.

[Gamplayerx]

You're taken vegan cooking classes?

[cnamon]

You're taken vegan cooking classes?

No...it is the end of our health and wellness week at work and they had a woman come in and prepare vegan food to give us a healthy diet alternative.

STEAKS FOREVER!

[Gamplayerx]

Oh.  Your office is weird.

[Beefy]

You're taken vegan cooking classes?

No...it is the end of our health and wellness week at work and they had a woman come in and prepare vegan food to give us a healthy diet alternative.

STEAKS FOREVER!

I think everyone who is okay with the current practices of the meat industry should have to kill their own cow at least once.

[BigDun]

You're taken vegan cooking classes?

No...it is the end of our health and wellness week at work and they had a woman come in and prepare vegan food to give us a healthy diet alternative.

STEAKS FOREVER!

I think everyone who is okay with the current practices of the meat industry should have to kill their own cow at least once.

I worked in a chicken factory when in college so I get to eat all the chicken I want guilt free.

[cnamon]

You're taken vegan cooking classes?

No...it is the end of our health and wellness week at work and they had a woman come in and prepare vegan food to give us a healthy diet alternative.

STEAKS FOREVER!

I think everyone who is okay with the current practices of the meat industry should have to kill their own cow at least once.

I lived near a farm...I have seen it all.  Doesn't bother me that much.

Although I will never eat veal.

[BigDun]

You're taken vegan cooking classes?

No...it is the end of our health and wellness week at work and they had a woman come in and prepare vegan food to give us a healthy diet alternative.

STEAKS FOREVER!

I think everyone who is okay with the current practices of the meat industry should have to kill their own cow at least once.

I've shot cows with bottle rockets. Does that count?

[DownSouth]

I ate shrooms that I picked myself.  Am I in?

[Bishamonten]

You're taken vegan cooking classes?

No...it is the end of our health and wellness week at work and they had a woman come in and prepare vegan food to give us a healthy diet alternative.

STEAKS FOREVER!

I think everyone who is okay with the current practices of the meat industry should have to kill their own cow at least once.

First job:  Butcher.  Does that mean I can keep eating meat?

[Jessie]

When I look at cows, it makes me sad to eat their juicy flesh, but I guess that it's part of nature.  Survival of the fittest and all that.

Plus, they taste really good.

I could never eat an animal that I knew first, though.  I'm sure that makes me hypocritical.

[Beefy]

Wow, the meat-eating masses got their cockles up.  Simmer down, kiddies.

What I said was that if you are okay with their practices you should have to kill your own cow.  Not that everyone who eats meat is evil.  I eat meat and I'm evil, though for compeltely different reasons.

The meat industries in this country utilize horrifying practices in how they raise/treat/kill their livestock.  This goes for the fowl and seafood indutries as well.  It is why I go out of my way and pay more to ensure I am getting my food from somewhere that does not support such practices.

[Alice]

It is why I go out of my way and pay more to ensure I am getting my food from somewhere that does not support such practices.

x2

Hooray for Whole Foods!

(Do any of you have those?)

[Jessie]

My cockles aren't up.

My silver bells, however, are blooming nicely.

[Beefy]

And no, I don't think shooting cows with bottle rockets is in any way okay.

[Bishamonten]

Wow, the meat-eating masses got their cockles up.  Simmer down, kiddies.

What I said was that if you are okay with their practices you should have to kill your own cow.  Not that everyone who eats meat is evil.  I eat meat and I'm evil, though for compeltely different reasons.

The meat industries in this country utilize horrifying practices in how they raise/treat/kill their livestock.  This goes for the fowl and seafood indutries as well.  It is why I go out of my way and pay more to ensure I am getting my food from somewhere that does not support such practices.

What's the point of excessively good treatement of animals raised as food?  The end product is the same, while the prices are not.

[Beefy]

What's the point of excessively good treatement of animals raised as food?  The end product is the same, while the prices are not.

The ends do not justify the means.  Just because they end up being butchered does not mean it is okay to mistreat them while they are alive.

[cnamon]

It is why I go out of my way and pay more to ensure I am getting my food from somewhere that does not support such practices.

x2

Hooray for Whole Foods!

(Do any of you have those?)

I love whole foods.

[Bishamonten]

What's the point of excessively good treatement of animals raised as food?  The end product is the same, while the prices are not.

The ends do not justify the means.  Just because they end up being butchered does not mean it is okay to mistreat them while they are alive.

Under what reasoning?  They are food.

[Beefy]

It is why I go out of my way and pay more to ensure I am getting my food from somewhere that does not support such practices.

x2

Hooray for Whole Foods!

(Do any of you have those?)

I love whole foods.

I do too, though unfortunately the closest one to me is in downtown Houston.

Kroger's really marks up their prices.  

[Beefy]

What's the point of excessively good treatement of animals raised as food?  The end product is the same, while the prices are not.

The ends do not justify the means.  Just because they end up being butchered does not mean it is okay to mistreat them while they are alive.

Under what reasoning?  They are food.

They don't become food until they've been killed.  Until then, they are alive and feel pain just like anything else.

[BigDun]

And no, I don't think shooting cows with bottle rockets is in any way okay.

I was young and stupid at the time. Years later I went back and hugged them and told them I was sorry.

[Bishamonten]

What's the point of excessively good treatement of animals raised as food?  The end product is the same, while the prices are not.

The ends do not justify the means.  Just because they end up being butchered does not mean it is okay to mistreat them while they are alive.

Under what reasoning?  They are food.

They don't become food until they've been killed.  Until then, they are alive and feel pain just like anything else.

They are food the minute they are purchased, birthed, or otherwise transferred into the possession of a company who makes profit upon the sale of processed meat products.  As such, they are property and unless the laws change, the owners are within their rights.

[BigDun]

Temple Grandin has done a lot to change the practices of the modern slaughterhouse.

[cnamon]

What's the point of excessively good treatement of animals raised as food?  The end product is the same, while the prices are not.

The ends do not justify the means.  Just because they end up being butchered does not mean it is okay to mistreat them while they are alive.

Under what reasoning?  They are food.

They don't become food until they've been killed.  Until then, they are alive and feel pain just like anything else.

Dear God, please forgive me.  Love, Dots

[Alice]

As such, they are property and unless the laws change, the owners are within their rights.

Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.

There are better ways to obtain meat.

[Beefy]

As such, they are property and unless the laws change, the owners are within their rights.

Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.

There are better ways to obtain meat.

Exactly.  It is never okay to excuse torture or mistreatment.

[Gamplayerx]

I like Whole Foods.  They have an excellent salad bar.

[Jessie]

As such, they are property and unless the laws change, the owners are within their rights.

Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.

There are better ways to obtain meat.

Exactly.  It is never okay to excuse torture or mistreatment.

I agree with that, hence my admitting to being hypocritical.

I've been to a chicken farm.  It made me sick.

[Alice]

I like Whole Foods.  They have an excellent salad bar.

And surprisingly great sushi.

[Bishamonten]

As such, they are property and unless the laws change, the owners are within their rights.

Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.

There are better ways to obtain meat.

All of which include the killing of an animal.   The taking of a life is defacto 'mistreatment'.

[Alice]

As such, they are property and unless the laws change, the owners are within their rights.

Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.

There are better ways to obtain meat.

All of which include the killing of an animal.   The taking of a life is defacto 'mistreatment'.

Yes, however there are more humane ways of doing it.  Ways that do not cause pain... or the pain is over in a second.

I eat meat - I can't not eat it.  But I feel better personallly if the meat I eat came from the most humane treatment possible. 

[Bishamonten]

As such, they are property and unless the laws change, the owners are within their rights.

Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.

There are better ways to obtain meat.

All of which include the killing of an animal.   The taking of a life is defacto 'mistreatment'.

Yes, however there are more humane ways of doing it.  Ways that do not cause pain... or the pain is over in a second.

I eat meat - I can't not eat it.  But I feel better personallly if the meat I eat came from the most humane treatment possible. 

The most humane treatment possible would result in the lack of a dead animal. 

Secondarily, the 'humane' treatment of animals will drive prices up, thusly pricing out poorer farmers as well as putting less meat on the tables of low income families.  I do not equate animals to have the same basic rights of humans.  As it stands, I don't even believe in the 'all human life is sacred', much less does that fallacy extend to animals - especially those bread as food.

[Alice]

I do not equate animals to have the same basic rights of humans.  As it stands, I don't even believe in the 'all human life is sacred', much less does that fallacy extend to animals - especially those bread as food.

I'm also totally for eating convicts.  I wouldn't mind being a wendigo. 

[Bishamonten]

I do not equate animals to have the same basic rights of humans.  As it stands, I don't even believe in the 'all human life is sacred', much less does that fallacy extend to animals - especially those bread as food.

I'm also totally for eating convicts.  I wouldn't mind being a wendigo. 

Good luck beating the Hulk -and- Wolverine.

[cnamon]

There are a lot of people frequenting the bathroom now.  It smells really bad.

I think I am going to be sick.

[Alice]

There are a lot of people frequenting the bathroom now.  It smells really bad.

I think I am going to be sick.

Vegan food will do that to you.  Cleans out the colon.

Thats why if you want to have anal sex, do it with a vegan girl.  You're less likely to find Silly Butty in there.

[Beefy]

If you acknowledge the food chain, you acknowledge that some creatures will be eaten by others.  That fact doesn't excuse everything on the food chain mistreating or torturing what is under it.  You kill because you have to, not because it's fun to.

We're not always at the top of the food chain.  In certain situations, we're nowhere near it.  If I'm getting eaten, eat me.  Do not torture me for months on end or mistreat me.  The same logic can be used with P.O.W.s - just because one group has the upper hand doesn't mean it should be okay for them to torture the prisoners.

I could honestly give a sh*t less how acting humanely would affect the capitalist system.  I do not put the needs of business over the rights of all creatures to not be needlessly tortured.

I agree completely, however, over the sanctity of human life nonsense. 

For me, the very fact that we are in a position to exploit the lives of these animals is the very reason we should be vigilant against it. As has been proven again and again ad nauseum, humans are a nasty, self-righteous, sanctimonious bunch.

[Bishamonten]

I could honestly give a sh*t less how acting humanely would affect the capitalist system. 

Which is why your feelings on this matter are equate to nothing more than personal opinion and preference.  Jumping on people who are fine with the current SOP of the meat industry comes off only as haughty. 

[Beefy]

I could honestly give a sh*t less how acting humanely would affect the capitalist system. 

Which is why your feelings on this matter are equate to nothing more than personal opinion and preference.  Jumping on people who are fine with the current SOP of the meat industry comes off only as haughty. 

I never claimed it was anything other than opinion.  Everyone has got one.

Also, I don't know that I actually jumped on anyone specific.

That said, this isn't an opinion on something trivial, like wallpaper.  We're talking about abuse and torture.  These are living creatures, not paperweights.  So yes, I believe I have the moral high ground.  People can believe otherwise if they so choose.

[Beefy]

Bish has a good point here, so let me say something.

You all are my friends.  It is never my intention to belittle or chastise you.  However, I may challenge you sometimes because that is my nature.

BD mentions bottle rocketing a cow, that type of thing catches my attention.  Does it mean I think BD is the anti-Christ?  Of course not.  BD is a great guy.  But that doesn't mean that I can't have a reaction to it, even a strong one.

Certain things tend to get to me more than others by simple fact that I waited way too long to form my own opinions on them.  Things I feel as though I should have been considering long ago.  And so I get a bit more passionate about it.

And, sometimes, I'll even be a haughty dick about it.  Call me on it if you want.  And I'll decide whether or not I feel as though it was still justified.  After all, there isn't a single person here who doesn't secretly feel as though their opinion one matter or another is more appropriate than someone else's.  That's just being human.

[Gamplayerx]

I think it's great you have your own opinions, even though mine are the ones that are actually correct.  And I think it's great that there can be differences of opinion here without things getting nasty. 

Although, I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say I'm a bit disappointed that Beefy & Bishy didn't decide to settle matters in a jell-o fight.

[Alice]

Although, I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say I'm a bit disappointed that Beefy & Bishy didn't decide to settle matters in a jell-o fight.

No kidding.  I'm disappointed in both of them.

[BigDun]

Bish has a good point here, so let me say something.

You all are my friends.  It is never my intention to belittle or chastise you.  However, I may challenge you sometimes because that is my nature.

BD mentions bottle rocketing a cow, that type of thing catches my attention.  Does it mean I think BD is the anti-Christ?  Of course not.  BD is a great guy.  But that doesn't mean that I can't have a reaction to it, even a strong one.

Certain things tend to get to me more than others by simple fact that I waited way too long to form my own opinions on them.  Things I feel as though I should have been considering long ago.  And so I get a bit more passionate about it.

And, sometimes, I'll even be a haughty dick about it.  Call me on it if you want.  And I'll decide whether or not I feel as though it was still justified.  After all, there isn't a single person here who doesn't secretly feel as though their opinion one matter or another is more appropriate than someone else's.  That's just being human.

I don't mind you having a strong reaction to my shooting bottle rockets at cows when I was a kid. After listening to multiple radio interviews with Temple Grandin, I feel really bad for what I did. In my own defense, at the time I did those things I didn't realize the stress flying objects and loud noises had on bovine.

If ever you get a chance to hear an interview with Professor Grandin, take the opportunity to listen. She has a unique insight into the psyche of animals. She is a functioning, severe autistic person who is probably the closest a human can come to being animal in nature but still having the ability to speak.

[Bishamonten]

I could honestly give a sh*t less how acting humanely would affect the capitalist system. 

Which is why your feelings on this matter are equate to nothing more than personal opinion and preference.  Jumping on people who are fine with the current SOP of the meat industry comes off only as haughty. 

That said, this isn't an opinion on something trivial, like wallpaper.  We're talking about abuse and torture.  These are living creatures, not paperweights.  So yes, I believe I have the moral high ground.  People can believe otherwise if they so choose.

Funny thing about 'moral high ground' is that it is entirely subjective.  The same way you throw about your particular verbage:  Torture, abuse.  Also subjective.  You are not differentiating between what is categorically "wrong" and what -you- believe is wrong.  In very few cases can you nail down if something is truly ethical and unethical, and this is not one of them. 

Abuse of animals raised for the slaughter for means of food is wrong.  Why?  Because you deem it so. 

[Bennyhana]

I could honestly give a sh*t less how acting humanely would affect the capitalist system. 

Which is why your feelings on this matter are equate to nothing more than personal opinion and preference.  Jumping on people who are fine with the current SOP of the meat industry comes off only as haughty. 

That said, this isn't an opinion on something trivial, like wallpaper.  We're talking about abuse and torture.  These are living creatures, not paperweights.  So yes, I believe I have the moral high ground.  People can believe otherwise if they so choose.

Funny thing about 'moral high ground' is that it is entirely subjective.  The same way you throw about your particular verbage:  Torture, abuse.  Also subjective.  You are not differentiating between what is categorically "wrong" and what -you- believe is wrong.  In very few cases can you nail down if something is truly ethical and unethical, and this is not one of them. 

Abuse of animals raised for the slaughter for means of food is wrong.  Why?  Because you deem it so. 

I think the only way we are ever able to figure out if something is truly unethical is to apply the golden rule.  I don't kill  because I wouldn't want someone killing me.  I don't steal because I don't want anyone to take my stuff.  I don't have to apply commandments or anything; it's pretty simple to figure out that these things are wrong without help.  That said, the animal mistreatment issue is still tricky.  I don't want anyone torturing me, but I don't want to be killed and eaten, either.  Is it necessary, once we accept that they will die either way, to accept that treating them in a mean way is okay as well? 

I'm on the fence on this one.  I'm torn between my knowledge that I couldn't kill a cow, and my acceptance that it's okay to eat cow.  I think that unnecessary mistreatment is probably wrong, but I have no idea where the line of "Necessary" is.

[Beefy]

It is not necessary to treat the animals the way they are treated, period.  It might be more cost effective, but then again I say that shouldn't be more important then showing that which we feast upon some respect.

If you really want to get down to it, it has become completely unnecessary to eat meat at all, as we have created so much synthetic food that meat is no longer necessary for its nutritional value.  So why do we continue to take the life of creatures when we don't have to?  Because we rationalize it.

And yes, all morality is subjective.  I find all forms of torture to be abhorrent, though I can see the merit of it in certain situations.  I do not find that the meat industries have a legitmate reason to torture.

Think about your dog.  Or your cat.  You know this animal well.  You know it feels pain and happiness and is quite self-aware.  We get upset every time we see a new story about pet abuse.  And yet this other animal abuse is somehow rationalized as being okay.  They might not be as smart as dogs and cats but they sure as heck know what pain is.  Even fish have had successful tests to prove they sense some pain.

The fact that we take advantage of other species lesser abilities and then rationalize our abhorrent behavior towards them disturbs me greatly.  Humans suck.

Does that mean all meat-eaters are bastards?  No, though I bet many are for a variety of reasons.  But it does mean that as a populace we ought to at least have the respect to pay attention to how that food is making it to our table, and to not support unnecessary cruelty where it is found.

It is possible, I imagine, to live a happy, healthy life right up to the point where we blast the bolt into your head.

[Youphoric]

It is why I go out of my way and pay more to ensure I am getting my food from somewhere that does not support such practices.

x2

Hooray for Whole Foods!

(Do any of you have those?)

There's 15 billion of them here.

[eo000]

I TRY to get the tortured fruits and vegetables. It tastes better knowing that their suffering is leading to mine. 

[Beefy]

I TRY to get the tortured fruits and vegetables. It tastes better knowing that their suffering is leading to mine. 

Both you and the fruit had it coming.

[BigDun]

The way to enlightenment is through compassion.

[Beefy]

The way to enlightenment is through compassion.

Or via the switch on the wall.

[Bishamonten]

It is not necessary to treat the animals the way they are treated, period.  It might be more cost effective, but then again I say that shouldn't be more important then showing that which we feast upon some respect.

If you really want to get down to it, it has become completely unnecessary to eat meat at all, as we have created so much synthetic food that meat is no longer necessary for its nutritional value.  So why do we continue to take the life of creatures when we don't have to?  Because we rationalize it.

Synthetics are expensive.  Again, I have a cheaper more natural way of getting the required vitamans and sustenance needed.  The removal of such a source is foolish to say nothing of it being based only on 'morality'.  Expensive food products at the exclusion of low-cost meat means families will go malnourished.  Some people may suck, but the choice to deny poor to borderline poor families the required nutrients for 'morals' lacks logic

And yes, all morality is subjective.  I find all forms of torture to be abhorrent, though I can see the merit of it in certain situations.  I do not find that the meat industries have a legitmate reason to torture.

Think about your dog.  Or your cat.  You know this animal well.  You know it feels pain and happiness and is quite self-aware.  We get upset every time we see a new story about pet abuse.  And yet this other animal abuse is somehow rationalized as being okay.  They might not be as smart as dogs and cats but they sure as heck know what pain is.  Even fish have had successful tests to prove they sense some pain.

Simply, falstaff is -mine-.  The choice to do with him is mine within the confines of the law.  As such, I've spent time connecting with him, training him, and bonding with him.  His species does not effect this - I have eaten dog.  Were I to spend time rearing a calf as a pet, I'd be unwilling to slaughter it.  But the definition stays the same:  He is a pet.  He is not being reared for food.

The fact that we take advantage of other species lesser abilities and then rationalize our abhorrent behavior towards them disturbs me greatly.  Humans suck.

Does that mean all meat-eaters are bastards?  No, though I bet many are for a variety of reasons.  But it does mean that as a populace we ought to at least have the respect to pay attention to how that food is making it to our table, and to not support unnecessary cruelty where it is found.

It is possible, I imagine, to live a happy, healthy life right up to the point where we blast the bolt into your head.

Cruelty for cruelties sake is both fruitless and undeniably 'wrong' and there are laws in place to limit and punish such actions.  However, you continue to fight for the 'moral highground' while ignoring the 'pragmatic ground' it is surrounded by. 

[Beefy]

Cruelty for cruelties sake is both fruitless and undeniably 'wrong' and there are laws in place to limit and punish such actions.  However, you continue to fight for the 'moral highground' while ignoring the 'pragmatic ground' it is surrounded by. 

There is nothing pragmatic about torture.  The bottom line does not make another creature's life worth less.

[Beefy]

Synthetics are expensive.  Again, I have a cheaper more natural way of getting the required vitamans and sustenance needed.  The removal of such a source is foolish to say nothing of it being based only on 'morality'.  Expensive food products at the exclusion of low-cost meat means families will go malnourished.  Some people may suck, but the choice to deny poor to borderline poor families the required nutrients for 'morals' lacks logic

I would say that synthetics aren't just expensive, they're prohibitively so.  My point wasn't that everyone should eat tofu for the rest of their life, just that each of us has a choice in the modern world.  Most people can choose to diet without the expense of being at something else's life.

And yes, even the poor can go out and hunt their food.  And they can kill it and skin and do whatever.  And none of it involves torture.  None of it rationalizes the improper care of the animal.  It is killed when it is needed to be.  Until then, no worries.

And no one can really own another life.  You can be responsible, but you can't own a life. 

[meredith]

What the hell are you two going on about?  I'd like to take this moment to attach one of my favorite insensitive comics.

So fresh!

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Beefy]

Actually, I want to retract something.

Torture can be pragmatic.  It's rare, but it happens.  Sad, but true.

Also, we don't have enough adult discussions around here.

[nishi]

If you really want to get down to it, it has become completely unnecessary to eat meat at all, as we have created so much synthetic food that meat is no longer necessary for its nutritional value.

i'm not sure what you're talking about here. what kinds of 'synthetic food' are do you mean?

we are omnivores. depending on your genetic makeup, some people are more or less able to do without meat in their diets. certainly, the typical american diet includes too much meat. since i know tibetans, i also know that many of them become quite ill on diets that don't include a certain amount of meat - i also know people who don't tolerate meat at all.

having spent a great deal of time growing up on farms and with farmers - farmers who ate what they raised, be it fruit, vegetable, or animal - i certainly understand and support the idea of treating animals for food well. you can treat an animal well without making it a pet.

and i think its important to support healthy treatment - including slaugtering techniques - for the animals we eat, just like i think it's important to support healthy treatment of other things we eat. 

bish makes a good economic point, though - there are any number of people in this country who cannot afford to shop at whole foods. at what point does raising the price of meat production so they are unable to afford it become unethical? i'm not saying it's worth torturing animals so people have cheap food. but i am saying that it's something to keep in mind. and yes, these people should also be eating fruits and vegetables and grains and all that - but they also get the cheap kinds with all the pesticides.

i think that meat production and distribution in this country is an enormously complicated issue. that doesn't make torturing animals right either. we have allowed enormous operations to take over all aspects of food production, meat and dairy and fruts and vegetables - certainly moving back towards treating food animals better would move us back toward smaller farming operations. although then you have to find people willing to run small farms and live in the rural areas where farms are.

one of the things that makes meat so cheap is the enormous number of illegal aliens that are employed in the meat packing industries. so there's that to consider as well.....

[nishi]

And yes, even the poor can go out and hunt their food.  And they can kill it and skin and do whatever.  And none of it involves torture.  None of it rationalizes the improper care of the animal.  It is killed when it is needed to be.  Until then, no worries.

the poor people where i live don't live anywhere near a place to hunt their own food. plus, it's hard to get there on a bus.

and if you don't think hunting involves torture, you must know people who never ever miss their mark.

[nishi]

also, for the record: tofu is not a synthetic food. it is made from soybeans, a totally natural thing that we grow huge fields of here in kentucky. tofu isn't any more synthetic than butter.

[Bishamonten]

FACE FACTS PEOPLE!  I have sat in this thread for three pages and not made one -anal- or -meat packing- joke!  NOT ONE!  I'm DYING HERE!

[nishi]

FACE FACTS PEOPLE!  I have sat in this thread for three pages and not made one -anal- or -meat packing- joke!  NOT ONE!  I'm DYING HERE!

you come sit by me.

[nallen]

Do you know I was a hard core Vegan for 7 1/2 years?

[nishi]

i don't know how anyone handles vegan. vegarian, yes. vegan - that's already hardcore. you don't have to be more hardcore than that.

plants fear you.

[Beefy]

and if you don't think hunting involves torture, you must know people who never ever miss their mark.

Yes, some miss.  I guess I don't equate that as torture so much because the objective isn't actually torture.  It's a kill.

But then, don't get me started on my hunting rant.

Also, I know tofu isn't synthetic.  I just used it because it was easy.

[nallen]

i don't know how anyone handles vegan. vegarian, yes. vegan - that's already hardcore. you don't have to be more hardcore than that.

plants fear you.

By hardcore I mean I didn't eat refined sugar, instead of say a person who was vegan say on the weekdays, but no the weekends.  I was serious.  (why I am not now is well, another long long story)
I hated plants. 

An interesting point to bring up in a cruelity-free lifestyle is inconsistent with organic food production. Organically grown foods use blood meal as feritilizer, making them escentually the product of animal exploitation. 

When you stand with a cruelity free lifestyle you embrace technology and progress.   As the population of the world grows there may well come a time when our current means of producing food can no longer feed the population.  At this time the rich will still eat as they always have, but the poor will not.  Asking them to "live off the land" is a recipe for ecological diaster.  Just look at fishing off the coast of New England.  Leaving things to the "natural ways" is lunacy, our population is already far beyond it's natural limit, and natural populations controls are viewed as being evils.   Embracing technology and careful planning is the only escape in the long run.

[nishi]

and if you don't think hunting involves torture, you must know people who never ever miss their mark.

Yes, some miss.  I guess I don't equate that as torture so much because the objective isn't actually torture.  It's a kill.

But then, don't get me started on my hunting rant.

Also, I know tofu isn't synthetic.  I just used it because it was easy.

a lot miss. or at least take more than one shot for the kill. and if, let's say, it's a person who could easily buy organic and cruelty free meat at whole foods - as many hunters are - if hunting is a sport rather than an economic necessity, and you only kill on the first shot 50% or, generously, even 75% of the time .... why is that not torture? the objective, as you say, or raising food animals is for food production isn't torture - the objective is food production. miserable conditions is a byproduct of poor methodology, as an animal suffering a lingering death due to a lung shot is a byproduct of being a mediocre sport hunter.

[eo000]

i thought everything in the universe tasted the same?

[Beefy]

Again, don't get me started on "sport" hunting.

[nishi]

Again, don't get me started on "sport" hunting.

no, i agree. i could rant all day on sport hunting. it doesn't even need quotes, that's what it is.

i'd be interested to know the percentage of hunters that actually need to hunt for food, vs. the number of hunters who eat what they kill because they like game vs. the number of hunters who eat what they kill simply because they killed it and that's part of the deal, vs. the number of hunters who either give away what they kill or hunt animals that have nothing to do with food whatsoever.

and there are lots of ways that we torture animals that have nothing to do with food production. deer have lost their predators and now often starve to death because they're over-populated. and we don't even eat them. we just torture them because we fucked up their homes and their system of checks and balances.

[eo000]

do you get more points for track runners?

[Gamplayerx]

My uncle hunts.  He's the only "good ole boy" I know.  He eats what he kills, not because he has to or because he hunts to support his family (he's the dentist in his town), but because he - it seems to me- get a kicks out of being able to tell people that he himself shot whatever the heck it is.

He took me skeet shooting when I was about 7.  My first shot (missed) put me on my ass and nearly dislocated my shoulder, so I sat in the car until the gun business was over.  I didn't gain any bonus points that day. 

[Alice]

My uncle hunts.  He's the only "good ole boy" I know.  He eats what he kills, not because he has to or because he hunts to support his family (he's the dentist in his town), but because he - it seems to me- get a kicks out of being able to tell people that he himself shot whatever the heck it is.

He took me skeet shooting when I was about 7.  My first shot (missed) put me on my ass and nearly dislocated my shoulder, so I sat in the car until the gun business was over.  I didn't gain any bonus points that day. 

+1

...just so you get some sort of bonus for that day...

[Gamplayerx]

Thank you, alice!