Should Patriots be penilized more for cheating?

[xxxtobymac]

I personally don't think new england should have been allowed to go past the regular season, But they have and they are in the super bowl. Is it just coincidence that they have a perfect regular season and possible perfect year, after they are caught cheating twice and possibly a third violation. How many more game have they spied on. We are having enough problems keeping kids off steroids or growth hormones, which i believe is a form of cheating. So believe letting the pats play the super bowl says to kids that you can benefit from cheating and you can get caught and still play in the big game.
Personally this is my take on what should have happend.
Bill Belichick should have been fired
not allowed to play in playoffs for rest of season.
Loss of all draft picks

[BigDun]

Trying to figure out the opponent's signaling system is not cheating. When I played in junior high, we always watched the signals the offense would call and try and match it up with the plays. It's part of the game. Part of the game is having a signaling system that can't be easily captured (by having multiple people signaling) and by changing the signals every game (and the challenge of trying to remember what this game's signals are).

[xxxtobymac]

Trying to figure out the opponent's signaling system is not cheating. When I played in junior high, we always watched the signals the offense would call and try and match it up with the plays. It's part of the game. Part of the game is having a signaling system that can't be easily captured (by having multiple people signaling) and by changing the signals every game (and the challenge of trying to remember what this game's signals are).

Ok i see your point, I used to play for Pitt back up DE, and in college and pro football it is considered cheating to go to a opponents field and video tape them

[dc]

I think the bigger problem with penalizing the Patriots is that they're not the only team that does it.  Other teams do it as well, so the situation begins to resemble the one of steroids in baseball.  Sure, the players are responsible, but what about the teams and MLB themselves.  They at least condoned the use of steroids, if not encouraged it, for many years.  Holding one person or team responsible for the actions of the whole sport only serves to create a scapegoat, not fix the larger issues.

[Infobahn]

The Patriots didn't cheat. 

[eo000]

The Patriots didn't cheat. 

how do you figure? they video taped the opposing teams signals. that's a direct violation of the rules.

[BigDun]

The Patriots didn't cheat. 

how do you figure? they video taped the opposing teams signals. that's a direct violation of the rules.

I didn't know there was an actual rule against it... But then again, I just watch games, I don't read sport sections of the paper or Sports Illustrated.

And if your not not to busy at an NFL party, come join Info and me here: http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=3374173

[eo000]

The Patriots didn't cheat. 

how do you figure? they video taped the opposing teams signals. that's a direct violation of the rules.

I didn't know there was an actual rule against it... But then again, I just watch games, I don't read sport sections of the paper or Sports Illustrated.

And if your not not to busy at an NFL party, come join Info and me here: http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=3374173

The rule is that no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field or in the locker room during the game. Clubs have specifically been reminded in the past that the videotaping of an opponent's offense or defensive signals on the sidelines is prohibited.

[ReBurn]

Looks like they were just penalized to me! Wow.

[Bennyhana]

I think if the league thought they were cheating, they should've had to forfeit that game.

But yeah, What ReBurn said.

Back to back Manning superbowls!

[VikingJuice]

As mentioned above, the "cheating" issue is only cheating because they videoed it.  Everyone, everywhere, even in Jr. High ball tries to steal signals.  We're taught as coaches (I used to coach for a while for those of you who didn't already know) to get any edge you can by listening, looking, scouting and whatever else.  We used to go to games early just to hear the snap count that teams went on.  We'd stand next to the endzone or side line to get audible calls, motion calls, defensive signals, body tendencies, everything!

In the NFL, there are paid scouts who sit at opponents games, with good tickets, and they chart tendencies and gather information on signals, gestures and any other information that can be gathered.  They also study all film they can from public broadcasts (local, national, HBO, NFLNet, ESPN and others) and also through the legal exchange of game film provided by the home team to all opponents.  It is perfectly legal for a guy to sit, with binoculars, a sketch pad and even a laptop and record every movement by any member of the team they are scouting.

The ONLY part that is illegal in a sense, is taking video of the actual same information.  I think the NFL rule is pretty weak considering all the other legit ways of gathering the same data.  Calling that cheating is like calling hot coffee a legit reason to file suit.  But since there is a rule, even if admittedly lame, the NFL had to penalize the Pats.  Taking away a 1st round pick was unprecedented in the history of the game.  That in itself, was far bigger than the average fan realizes.  And it sent a hell of a strong message to the rest of the league who voraciously and lustfully covets every single pick they have.

Any other team that has the sheer audacity to cry foul is like Mike Tyson saying someone hits too hard.  It would be total hypocrisy. 

[Bennyhana]

Except the Bears.  They don't "covet" their first round pics so much as "waste them as quickly as they can on players who will be terrible disappointments"

I'm looking at YOU, Cade McNown and Cedric Benson.

Yeah, Alice, I said it.  He was okay last year when he was a supplemental back, but he just wasn't getting it done this year.

[VikingJuice]

Except the Bears.  They don't "covet" their first round pics so much as "waste them as quickly as they can on players who will be terrible disappointments"

I'm looking at YOU, Cade McNown and Cedric Benson.

Yeah, Alice, I said it.  He was okay last year when he was a supplemental back, but he just wasn't getting it done this year.

Don't forget the wasting of a #1 on trading for Rick Mirer.

That aside, there's a difference between coveting the pick, and being colossally stupid with it's choice.

[Alice]

Yeah, Alice, I said it.  He was okay last year when he was a supplemental back, but he just wasn't getting it done this year.

No, I totally agree.  I think he really needed some one to challenge him, like TJ. 

And the Patriots did cheat.  They willfully violated NFL rules.  I don't care who else does it at what other level.  If you blatantly go against a rule laid down by the sports league, you're a cheater.  Period.  And pretty dumb.  There are other ways to go about it that don't go against rules.

[ReBurn]

Yeah, Alice, I said it.  He was okay last year when he was a supplemental back, but he just wasn't getting it done this year.

No, I totally agree.  I think he really needed some one to challenge him, like TJ. 

And the Patriots did cheat.  They willfully violated NFL rules.  I don't care who else does it at what other level.  If you blatantly go against a rule laid down by the sports league, you're a cheater.  Period.  And pretty dumb.  There are other ways to go about it that don't go against rules.

Like by being a bully and stealing the little green notebook.

[Beefy]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/02/15/patriots.sued.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

[Jessie]

Oral isn't cheating.

[ReBurn]

Oral isn't cheating.

Doesn't that depend on the definition of 'is'?